Developer forums (C::B DEVELOPMENT STRICTLY!) > Development

Changing build options, should force a rebuild

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thomas:

--- Quote ---In addition: If a developer does'n't understand when a project needs to be re-build before shipping he deserves shipping crap. He'll then get back report from users complaining accordingly which he deserves, too. But then he'll start to think about what he actually does and will understand a build process.

This in fact is most important for serious software development. If you don't understand this you'll never do good software and then IMHO you shouldn't wonder if things don't work. And (again): If things don't work you start thinking which is a good thing (tm).
--- End quote ---
Yes, Sir!

kidmosey:

--- Quote from: iw2nhl on July 18, 2006, 07:20:46 pm ---
--- Quote from: thomas on July 18, 2006, 06:56:24 pm ---Many compiler options and project settings can indeed be changed without requiring the whole project to be recompiled.

--- End quote ---
This never happened to me in years of programming. (Anyway may be it happens so often to you and other people)

--- End quote ---

You've never forgotten to add a link library to a compile?  Or to add lib directories?  These certainly do not require a full rebuild.  Or perhaps you just switched the compiler to display all warnings (or even certain optimisations).  You may not want to rebuild after this.  Even in the case of custom settings, using a "-x 'c++''" switch most likely will not require a full recompile... and expecting the IDE to know such things is promoting developer ignorance.  There are already too many VB kiddies out there (no offense).


--- Quote from: iw2nhl on July 18, 2006, 07:20:46 pm ---
--- Quote from: thomas on July 18, 2006, 06:56:24 pm ---Sometimes, I ask myself "what is this program, is it an IDE or what is it?". After all, programming is a scientific activity (or so say the computer scientists... :)). You can certainly expect from someone using an IDE to either have or acquire the necessary skills and knowledge.

--- End quote ---
"acquire" means someone or something teaches you, and this message box would be there just for that purpose.

--- End quote ---

I'm not sure the IDE should be the educational instrument, considering most users will already have a lot of knowledge and constantly checking dialogs is quite a nuiscance.  Sure, you can gear it to make it easy to use for novice users, which IMO is what toolbars/tooltips do.  But how do you know where to stop if you turn it into an educational implement?  Will you bring up a dialog to let the user know compiling will overwrite the existing executable?  For the most part, the existing dialogs are there to prevent accidental clicks or keystrokes, not to educate the user.

Ceniza:
Wow, you're really inspired today... I support your ideology :)

iw2nhl:

--- Quote from: thomas on July 18, 2006, 07:54:43 pm ---
--- Quote ---I think in "every real case" what happens is not what you expect, else there were no bugs in softwares.
--- End quote ---
This has nothing to do with bugs in software. If you release software, one can expect that you don't pack the random crap that happens to be around somewhere into a zip file and ship it. You will do a full build anyway.

--- End quote ---

--- Quote from: MortenMacFly on July 18, 2006, 08:10:05 pm ---In addition I don't want to use software from people that don't understand when to re-build a project and/or don't do a full re-build/testing before shipping software.

--- End quote ---
I was not speaking about packaging, I was speaking about everyday compilation.


--- Quote from: MortenMacFly on July 18, 2006, 08:10:05 pm ---In addition: If a developer does'n't understand when a project needs to be re-build before shipping he deserves shipping crap.

--- End quote ---
You never forgot anything?


--- Quote from: MortenMacFly on July 18, 2006, 08:10:05 pm ---One could also argue like this: My collegue will never check any checkbox of dialogs such as the "annoying dialog" or any "Tip of the day" to never show again. Thus this dialogs keep popping up for him again and again. In addition he'll never read but just click the default button. In fact I believe this behaviour is really common! Thus for such people they would always do a full re-build.

--- End quote ---
And this is exactly what I wanted, who does not know or does not read, always recompile.
Who knows what is doing clicks the check box and this "annoying dialog" is gone forever.
Isn't this easy?


--- Quote from: MortenMacFly on July 18, 2006, 08:10:05 pm ---You see: This discussion is purely philosofic. Depending on your point of view some will argue pro and other will argue contra to your suggestion. What is right? I don't know but I feel not to have a "dummie help" is more useful in the end (for this specific case).

--- End quote ---
Yes, it's a question about point of views in the end...
I just wanted an option for newbies, nothing more, while you prefer support only experts. It is a choice, nothing is right and nothing is wrong!

MortenMacFly:

--- Quote from: iw2nhl on July 18, 2006, 10:15:32 pm ---I just wanted an option for newbies, nothing more, while you prefer support only experts. It is a choice, nothing is right and nothing is wrong!

--- End quote ---
Well it is possible. You could implement a new dialog class e.g. "NewbieDialog" or "EducationDialog" or however to will call it. It could follow the default "AnnoyingDialog" but should be off by default. Then you could add "educational messages" all over C::B. Most important: In contrast to the "AnnoyingDialog" they should be off by default and can be globally enabled by a command line switch and an option.

Then you could easily turn such messages on or off if you like. But I still think that the default value should be "off" for such messages. They are a good help for beginners (you could ask to enable this option during the installation to point beginners to it) but I guess the majority of the C::B user won't like it if such messages are enabled by default.

This is an Open Source project, so there is this option to look an the AnnoyingDialog, implement a "EducationDialog", add the configuration options and submit a patch. This shouldn't be too hard. And if this is done well I could imagine that this would make it into the core - why not?! But I for myself are not willing to implement this. If anybody else is - go on! There is nothing that could stop you.

Wih regards, Morten.

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