Author Topic: Will C::B ever move to Git w/ Github or Gitlab?  (Read 3603 times)

Offline Lazauya

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Will C::B ever move to Git w/ Github or Gitlab?
« on: April 30, 2021, 12:11:12 am »
Title says it all. I'd like to start contributing to the project, and I think the vast majority of people use Git now, including myself. I think switching to Github/Gitlab would increase visibility for the project and would also help bring in new contributors as those services really do make contributing to open source projects easier

I've seen that this has been suggested in the past, so I'm curious why it hasn't been done; I haven't seen a real reason in any of the public discussion on the topic.

Offline stahta01

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Re: Will C::B ever move to Git w/ Github or Gitlab?
« Reply #1 on: April 30, 2021, 04:33:29 am »
For now, I think the best that can be expected is an official git mirror of the current SVN repo.

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Offline ollydbg

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Re: Will C::B ever move to Git w/ Github or Gitlab?
« Reply #2 on: April 30, 2021, 04:39:01 am »
Title says it all. I'd like to start contributing to the project, and I think the vast majority of people use Git now, including myself. I think switching to Github/Gitlab would increase visibility for the project and would also help bring in new contributors as those services really do make contributing to open source projects easier

I've seen that this has been suggested in the past, so I'm curious why it hasn't been done; I haven't seen a real reason in any of the public discussion on the topic.

For me, I have no svn client in my PC for several years. Though I use git svn dcommit to push to our svn repo.
I also suggest switch to git from svn.

But there are some issues, I think one big issue is that the svn branch could be lost when we switch to git, because some svn branches get renamed from time to time. :(

I don't know other dev's option.
If some piece of memory should be reused, turn them to variables (or const variables).
If some piece of operations should be reused, turn them to functions.
If they happened together, then turn them to classes.

Offline oBFusCATed

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Re: Will C::B ever move to Git w/ Github or Gitlab?
« Reply #3 on: April 30, 2021, 09:40:43 am »
Title says it all. I'd like to start contributing to the project, and I think the vast majority of people use Git now, including myself. I think switching to Github/Gitlab would increase visibility for the project and would also help bring in new contributors as those services really do make contributing to open source projects easier

I've seen that this has been suggested in the past, so I'm curious why it hasn't been done; I haven't seen a real reason in any of the public discussion on the topic.
There you go - https://github.com/obfuscated/codeblocks_sf we've technically switched, because you can make pull requests against this repo if you like. You won't get github contribution rewards because "git svn dcommit" would rewrite your commits when/if I do accept your contribution, but is this really important?
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Offline WinterMute

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Re: Will C::B ever move to Git w/ Github or Gitlab?
« Reply #4 on: April 30, 2021, 02:40:55 pm »
There you go - https://github.com/obfuscated/codeblocks_sf we've technically switched, because you can make pull requests against this repo if you like. You won't get github contribution rewards because "git svn dcommit" would rewrite your commits when/if I do accept your contribution, but is this really important?

Why not just switch the development there and use normal git workflow instead of going back to svn at all?

There's also the CI infrastructure on there that would allow builds to be released for basically every commit if you wanted.
« Last Edit: April 30, 2021, 02:46:57 pm by WinterMute »

Offline Lazauya

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Re: Will C::B ever move to Git w/ Github or Gitlab?
« Reply #5 on: April 30, 2021, 05:45:44 pm »
Why not just switch the development there and use normal git workflow instead of going back to svn at all?

There's also the CI infrastructure on there that would allow builds to be released for basically every commit if you wanted.

This. Not to mention a really simple and convenient issue tracking interface and the ability to have a native wiki. (wiki.codeblocks.org has been down for me since yesterday).

Offline oBFusCATed

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Re: Will C::B ever move to Git w/ Github or Gitlab?
« Reply #6 on: April 30, 2021, 08:02:28 pm »
Why not just switch the development there and use normal git workflow instead of going back to svn at all?
The svn workflow doesn't matter for outside people. It causes headaches for me, because I have to do some extra steps, but outside people contributing could use only git and I'm fine to apply git patches or take pull-requests on github.

There's also the CI infrastructure on there that would allow builds to be released for basically every commit if you wanted.
Nope, this won't happen if we still use cb to build cb. I've tried to setup the windows alternative to travis and it failed miserably and I've abondon it.
Also no one is stopping me to setup this even if the project is on source-forge. (I already have travis-ci builds for ubuntu)
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Offline Lazauya

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Re: Will C::B ever move to Git w/ Github or Gitlab?
« Reply #7 on: May 02, 2021, 02:52:32 am »
Nope, this won't happen if we still use cb to build cb. I've tried to setup the windows alternative to travis and it failed miserably and I've abondon it.
Also no one is stopping me to setup this even if the project is on source-forge. (I already have travis-ci builds for ubuntu)

So is this the thing stopping migration? Or are there other reasons too?

Offline stahta01

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Re: Will C::B ever move to Git w/ Github or Gitlab?
« Reply #8 on: May 02, 2021, 04:06:59 am »
Or are there other reasons too?

Right now, the SVN reversion number is used as the internal CB version number.

That is a blocking issue; that may be simple or hard to fix.

The number of core CB developers who do not want to switch to Git is likely the main stopping issue.

Since, I am not even a CB developer I have no idea what reasons are the ones that need fixed before moving to Git.

I did read that the last key stopping issue on the GCC project was good software to maintain the SVN history during the move to Git.

With GCC, there was unofficial mirrors and later a more official unofficial single mirror for the others to use as a base.

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Offline oBFusCATed

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Re: Will C::B ever move to Git w/ Github or Gitlab?
« Reply #9 on: May 02, 2021, 08:45:02 am »
1. Right now, the SVN reversion number is used as the internal CB version number.
That is a blocking issue; that may be simple or hard to fix.

2. The number of core CB developers who do not want to switch to Git is likely the main stopping issue.

Since, I am not even a CB developer I have no idea what reasons are the ones that need fixed before moving to Git.

3. I did read that the last key stopping issue on the GCC project was good software to maintain the SVN history during the move to Git.

With GCC, there was unofficial mirrors and later a more official unofficial single mirror for the others to use as a base.
1. This one is not an issue. We can use the commit hash, we can use a date, we could use monotonically increasing git-tags.
2. This was the case 5 years ago. I've not checked what is the status in 2021, but I don't care.
3. We have full history on master/trunk already. Not an issue.

stahta01: Keep in mind that the github "trolls" don't request just a switch to git, it is "you're on github or I won't contribute to your project" mantra which I don't understand.
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Offline oBFusCATed

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Re: Will C::B ever move to Git w/ Github or Gitlab?
« Reply #10 on: May 02, 2021, 08:52:52 am »
So is this the thing stopping migration? Or are there other reasons too?
Nope. I've listed the main issue - the benefit for us doesn't pay for the cost of transition.
I prefer to work on bugs/features instead of being bothered with working on this.
If you want to contribute you'll contribute and there is a way to do it if you want to use the github tools.

Do you require that your name/email is stored as the commit author? If you inspect our svn/git history you'll see that we give credit to contributors in the commit message.
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Offline WinterMute

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Re: Will C::B ever move to Git w/ Github or Gitlab?
« Reply #11 on: May 02, 2021, 01:36:28 pm »
So is this the thing stopping migration? Or are there other reasons too?
Nope. I've listed the main issue - the benefit for us doesn't pay for the cost of transition.

What's the cost of transition? Can anything be done to ease that cost or is this just another way to say that you don't see the benefit & won't be switching to git any time soon?


Quote
Do you require that your name/email is stored as the commit author? If you inspect our svn/git history you'll see that we give credit to contributors in the commit message.

Thing about github though is that some employers like to look at a candidate's github commit history and upstream contributions. If you just give credit in the commit message then they won't show up in the contributor list.

stahta01: Keep in mind that the github "trolls" don't request just a switch to git, it is "you're on github or I won't contribute to your project" mantra which I don't understand.

Speaking for myself personally I have to say I've got used to git and contributing patches in particular ways using the tools git provides. If someone is insisting on using subversion for source control then I feel like I'll be making their life harder than it needs to be by using a git related workflow to contribute so I probably won't bother. I do think git is orders of magnitude better than subversion but I'm not going to argue about it I'm just not going back to subversion (or indeed CVS and especially not SourceSafe).


Offline oBFusCATed

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Re: Will C::B ever move to Git w/ Github or Gitlab?
« Reply #12 on: May 02, 2021, 07:41:01 pm »
What's the cost of transition? Can anything be done to ease that cost or is this just another way to say that you don't see the benefit & won't be switching to git any time soon?
I don't know. Probably two-three weeks of developer time would be required. My time I can spend on the project is limited and I prefer to do actual improvements to the software.

Thing about github though is that some employers like to look at a candidate's github commit history and upstream contributions. If you just give credit in the commit message then they won't show up in the contributor list.
You can list the hashes in a repo in your resume/cv if this is the only public thing you've done and you're proud of it and thinks it is important.

Speaking for myself personally I have to say I've got used to git and contributing patches in particular ways using the tools git provides. If someone is insisting on using subversion for source control then I feel like I'll be making their life harder than it needs to be by using a git related workflow to contribute so I probably won't bother. I do think git is orders of magnitude better than subversion but I'm not going to argue about it I'm just not going back to subversion (or indeed CVS and especially not SourceSafe).
I only use svn to checkout the repo in order to make ubuntu night builds. I use git exclusively for everything else, I'm fine if you post git patches or pull requests. So C::B is not requesting svn patches only. But the github trolls insist that the whole project needs to be on github otherwise they won't contribute.
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Offline Lazauya

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Re: Will C::B ever move to Git w/ Github or Gitlab?
« Reply #13 on: May 03, 2021, 06:31:35 pm »
I don't know. Probably two-three weeks of developer time would be required. My time I can spend on the project is limited and I prefer to do actual improvements to the software.

So are there any developers that would WANT to do it? I definitely would be down to set it up myself. If I could get it set up with CI and transfer the repository would that work?

Offline oBFusCATed

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Re: Will C::B ever move to Git w/ Github or Gitlab?
« Reply #14 on: May 03, 2021, 07:09:01 pm »
Set up what? You don't have full access to the sf.net project, so you probably cannot dump and import the tickets. You'll have to do some kind of user remapping which you cannot do without talking to devs and other users which have posted tickets.

I repeat: The repository is already on github!!! It could be found here https://github.com/obfuscated/codeblocks_sf . You can post patches or pull requests against it!
I repeat: I use git to develop codeblocks. I'm doing this for something like the last 8-9 years.

Why do you want the whole project to be on github? What would be the benefit for you as an external to C::B developer if the whole project is on github (sans the requirement to have a forum/sf.net login)?
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Offline sodev

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Re: Will C::B ever move to Git w/ Github or Gitlab?
« Reply #15 on: May 03, 2021, 07:16:51 pm »
GitHub is the Facebook/Instagram for developers, this is where the cool kids hang out these days 8). Getting likes (== lines of code) is serious business. And people are lazy, they can't be bothered with another development account beside the GitHub one ;D.

Offline oBFusCATed

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Re: Will C::B ever move to Git w/ Github or Gitlab?
« Reply #16 on: May 03, 2021, 07:27:44 pm »
GitHub is the Facebook/Instagram for developers, this is where the cool kids hang out these days 8). Getting likes (== lines of code) is serious business. And people are lazy, they can't be bothered with another development account beside the GitHub one ;D.
Yes, but neighter C++, nor wxWidgets, nor native GUI development is cool in 2021.
So if someone wants to be cool he/she has to do something else like rust, haskell, modern javascript (I don't know what the cool kids use today) programming.
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Offline Lazauya

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Re: Will C::B ever move to Git w/ Github or Gitlab?
« Reply #17 on: May 03, 2021, 07:36:20 pm »
Why do you want the whole project to be on github? What would be the benefit for you as an external to C::B developer if the whole project is on github (sans the requirement to have a forum/sf.net login)?

It increases visibility and transparency. Just speaking anecdotally, it took me half an hour just to find the main repository for C::B. (Granted I'm not always the sharpest.) I truly think that switching would increase the amount of contribution, which would generally benefit users of C::B. Git is the current standard, and it doesn't seem to be going away any time soon. I don't have anything against Sourceforge or SVN except for their generally accepted antiquated-ness. I just think that, for an open source project, C::B seems opaque from the outside, a problem I feel could be alleviated by switching off of Sourceforge.

When I say switch to Git I don't mean Github necessarily. There's also Gitlab, which offers essentially the same services as Github.

Set up what? You don't have full access to the sf.net project, so you probably cannot dump and import the tickets. You'll have to do some kind of user remapping which you cannot do without talking to devs and other users which have posted tickets.

Set up CI. You said earlier that you were having troubles with Windows & CI. I have plenty of Windows development experience.

The tickets issue could be alleviated by a transition period. Just ignore new tickets on SF and tell everyone to post on whatever is switched to.

Offline Lazauya

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Re: Will C::B ever move to Git w/ Github or Gitlab?
« Reply #18 on: May 03, 2021, 07:38:19 pm »
Yes, but neighter C++, nor wxWidgets, nor native GUI development is cool in 2021.
So if someone wants to be cool he/she has to do something else like rust, haskell, modern javascript (I don't know what the cool kids use today) programming.

It is cool, but only for "punks" who write make game engines or write graphics libraries LOL.

Offline oBFusCATed

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Re: Will C::B ever move to Git w/ Github or Gitlab?
« Reply #19 on: May 04, 2021, 01:19:34 am »
Set up CI. You said earlier that you were having troubles with Windows & CI. I have plenty of Windows development experience.
I know how to setup CI.
I know what I have to do to make it work, but given that it won't be reliable I won't bother for now.
Someday if I (or someone else) port the build system to cmake or meson, I'll give it another try.

But this is unrelated to git/github/gitlab.
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Offline WinterMute

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Re: Will C::B ever move to Git w/ Github or Gitlab?
« Reply #20 on: May 04, 2021, 11:37:11 am »
Thing about github though is that some employers like to look at a candidate's github commit history and upstream contributions. If you just give credit in the commit message then they won't show up in the contributor list.
You can list the hashes in a repo in your resume/cv if this is the only public thing you've done and you're proud of it and thinks it is important.

No offence but this is a completely absurd statement. No employer is going to look at a list of hashes in a CV and cross reference them against an unofficial mirror of a subversion repository. I feel like you're just trolling with quite a lot of these answers. It's perfectly acceptable to just say you don't want to move to github you knpw.

Quote
I only use svn to checkout the repo in order to make ubuntu night builds. I use git exclusively for everything else, I'm fine if you post git patches or pull requests. So C::B is not requesting svn patches only. But the github trolls insist that the whole project needs to be on github otherwise they won't contribute.

I don't really understand why you'd use subversion for anything if you've essentially already moved to git. Why are you using subversion for that?

Everything else I kind of feel is people talking at cross purposes. It's not necessary to move everything to github. I'd be more than satisfied with an official github repository where PRs can be made and discussed. Where PRs could be merged once they're acceptable. Ideally using the git workflow that then leaves the author intact so it shows up on github stats. So git blame works and you know who to ask about particular code if it's confusing.

I guess the real question is do any current code::blocks devs not use git for development? Is there any reason not to switch development completely to git now? Forget about github and all the other stuff. Would it be possible to have the code maintained in a git repository & contributions made via git format-patch style patchsets at the very least?

Offline oBFusCATed

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Re: Will C::B ever move to Git w/ Github or Gitlab?
« Reply #21 on: May 04, 2021, 12:54:08 pm »
I don't really understand why you'd use subversion for anything if you've essentially already moved to git. Why are you using subversion for that?
There was a discussion in the past, there were people against a move to git and that's it. I've not bothered to reopen it since, because it doesn't matter that much. I have better things to spend my time.

Where PRs could be merged once they're acceptable. Ideally using the git workflow that then leaves the author intact so it shows up on github stats. So git blame works and you know who to ask about particular code if it's confusing.
git blame still works, because we keep the original author mostly in tact. We use ticket ids and so on.
The PR workflow on github is horrendous IMO, so even if we switch on git I'd not auto-merge PRs.
I don't know how you ask people on random commits, github doesn't allow it, the email in git doesn't need to be a real one. Sometimes I use my real email, but most of the times it is an email I don't even have access to.

I guess the real question is do any current code::blocks devs not use git for development?
No idea, I've not bothered with this topic in the last 5 years.

Is there any reason not to switch development completely to git now?
Answered already above.

Would it be possible to have the code maintained in a git repository & contributions made via git format-patch style patchsets at the very least?
You can do this already. I'll take the patches apply them, add the contribution info, edit them if required (most of the patches do require edits anyway) and push them to svn.
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Offline Lazauya

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Re: Will C::B ever move to Git w/ Github or Gitlab?
« Reply #22 on: May 12, 2021, 03:48:08 am »
Someday if I (or someone else) port the build system to cmake or meson, I'll give it another try.

I started migrating to cmake. I know you said that this wasn't directly related to Git, but I do hope it makes Github/Gitlab integration easier. I couldn't create a branch on your repository, so I forked it and created the branch on mine. Here's the branch: https://github.com/Lazauya/codeblocks_sf/tree/cmake

Offline oBFusCATed

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Re: Will C::B ever move to Git w/ Github or Gitlab?
« Reply #23 on: May 12, 2021, 10:14:39 am »
Deleting autotools as a first step is the wrong move...
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Offline Lazauya

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Re: Will C::B ever move to Git w/ Github or Gitlab?
« Reply #24 on: May 12, 2021, 06:06:30 pm »
Deleting autotools as a first step is the wrong move...

I don't have the authority to delete anything from any official repositories. If you're referencing how it's gone from my branch, that was just for making the conversion easier. The only thing thay would be incompatible would be the config.h.in, so maintaining the legacy build system alongside cmake should be simple enough.

In any case, what would be the first step? What can I do to make this happen? You said that you you don't want to spend your time doing it, but I do.

Offline oBFusCATed

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Re: Will C::B ever move to Git w/ Github or Gitlab?
« Reply #25 on: May 12, 2021, 07:32:49 pm »
If you delete the autotools build system we don't have the official/current build system (used to make linux packages) to compare if the cmake system is correct or not.
So deleting it as a first step is wrong, at least if your goal is to be able to merge your branch in the official repo.
So if you want to have a chance of the work being integrated in the official repo, please leave autotools intact. Deleting it is the easiest thing.
On the other hand if you just want to play with cmake and then drop the thing after a while then it is fine to delete autotools or do whatever you want. :)

Also I'm not sure I like the idea of config.h.in. I'd rather not use it. The internal C::B build system doesn't use it and we're fine, without it.

p.s. The switch to git doesn't depend on using cmake or not, these two are orthogonal. Mentioning this to prevent some possible confusion.
p.p.s. It is a requirement that you preserve the internal build system, too.
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Offline oBFusCATed

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Re: Will C::B ever move to Git w/ Github or Gitlab?
« Reply #26 on: May 12, 2021, 07:46:53 pm »
Also it would be best to start a separate topic about the cmake stuff when you have something that works...
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Offline Lazauya

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Re: Will C::B ever move to Git w/ Github or Gitlab?
« Reply #27 on: May 12, 2021, 08:01:51 pm »
If you delete the autotools build system we don't have the official/current build system (used to make linux packages) to compare if the cmake system is correct or not.
So deleting it as a first step is wrong, at least if your goal is to be able to merge your branch in the official repo.
So if you want to have a chance of the work being integrated in the official repo, please leave autotools intact. Deleting it is the easiest thing.
On the other hand if you just want to play with cmake and then drop the thing after a while then it is fine to delete autotools or do whatever you want. :)

Like I said before, this is a non-issue. Adding back autotools is simple. I'll add it back before I even try merging to master, of course. (Or move the CMake files to a clone of the original, whatever works better in the end.)

Also I'm not sure I like the idea of config.h.in. I'd rather not use it. The internal C::B build system doesn't use it and we're fine, without it.

Perfect. Then I'll just remove it altogether in my next commit.

p.s. The switch to git doesn't depend on using cmake or not, these two are orthogonal. Mentioning this to prevent some possible confusion.

So what DOES moving to Git depend on? I want to do THAT along with moving to CMake; I think using CMake is a very necessary modernization, and so I will continue until it's as feature complete as I can make it. However, I think moving the project to a more modern platform like Github, Gitlab, or even an org-maintained Git repo (like what Blender has) is a must. I like full IDE's and CB. I really don't want this project to be a relic any longer. I don't think bug fixes and QOL improvements will fix that, I think it needs more radical change. But that's just me.

Offline oBFusCATed

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Re: Will C::B ever move to Git w/ Github or Gitlab?
« Reply #28 on: May 12, 2021, 08:20:40 pm »
So what DOES moving to Git depend on?
It depends on the development team deciding that moving to git, github, gitlab or anything like that is worth the effort and it is beneficial.

I want to do THAT along ...
It is not up to you to do that or to decide it at. At least at the moment.
If you contribute enough good work you can request being added to the development team.

I like full IDE's and CB. I really don't want this project to be a relic any longer.
It will stop being a relic if people work more on it. Your proposition is that the use of svn/sf.net stops quality work being contributed.
I don't believe this to be true and it is hard to measure it, so it is for you hard to prove it. And we're actually on github and we're actually using git...

I don't think bug fixes and QOL improvements will fix that, I think it needs more radical change. But that's just me.
So you think that switching to git magically would make the debugger plugin to actually work in the real world?
Or it will auto integrate something like LSP to make CC support C++2099?
Or it will make the build system to utilize modern mutli-core cpus?
Or it will add better cmake/meson support...

I'm out of this topic. If you want to discuss your cmake contribution please start new one.
(most of the time I ignore long posts)
[strangers don't send me private messages, I'll ignore them; post a topic in the forum, but first read the rules!]

Offline Lazauya

  • Multiple posting newcomer
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  • Posts: 12
Re: Will C::B ever move to Git w/ Github or Gitlab?
« Reply #29 on: May 12, 2021, 10:26:52 pm »
So you think that switching to git magically would make the debugger plugin to actually work in the real world?
Or it will auto integrate something like LSP to make CC support C++2099?
Or it will make the build system to utilize modern mutli-core cpus?
Or it will add better cmake/meson support...

Looks like I got my laundry list. I'll get to work.