Author Topic: C::B in deutsch  (Read 4269 times)

Offline olipfei

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C::B in deutsch
« on: June 08, 2008, 09:43:45 pm »
Sorry to open a parallel to a thread which administrator Thomas already closed, hope you won't throw me out for this. But since I myself am interested in CB's translation I just wanted to inform 3Zack (and of course all other users) that in contrast to Thomas' short statement it is possible to get CB working in German (Deutsch) and possibly other languages - to some extent!!

As I see it:
  • CB dynamically detects and loads available .mo files following the gettext standard.
  • There is an (possibly outdated? But working for me) explanation in wiki on how to create and use .mo files in your language.
  • There is a (unofficial??) project for translating CB at launchpad.net.
  • There is even a link in the wiki forwarding to launchpad.net.
  • If you look at the German translation at launchpad.net, it is not yet completely but to a great extent usable, at least in my opinion.

So I would like to hear the administrators' opinion on the status and priority of the internationalization of CB. Or is it, interpreting Thomas' statement, simply no issue at the current stage of CB's development?

Regards,
Oliver
« Last Edit: June 08, 2008, 10:08:09 pm by olipfei »

Offline JGM

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Re: C::B in deutsch
« Reply #1 on: June 08, 2008, 10:07:59 pm »
You could try to translate it yourself, with poedit is pretty easy, it generates the po file from sources so all you do is translate the strings, here is the link:
http://www.poedit.net/

Also the app is made on wxWidgets too.

Good luck! :)

Offline olipfei

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Re: C::B in deutsch
« Reply #2 on: June 08, 2008, 10:21:35 pm »
Quote
You could try to translate it yourself, with poedit is pretty easy, it generates the po file from sources so all you do is translate the strings, here is the link:
http://www.poedit.net/
You mean without to bother the file 'intl.bat' from wiki, yes, one could. But why reinvent the wheel, look at the already available German translation. My guess, it's somewhere between 50% and 90% complete, and you can download it and modify it according to your wishes.

Without to anticipate the main developers'  replies, I think all efforts concerning internationalization should be focussed on launchpad.net, and once a translation is considered mature enough it would be reasonable to ship it somewhat 'officially' with some x.xx release of CB.

Regards,
Oliver

Offline thomas

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Re: C::B in deutsch
« Reply #3 on: June 09, 2008, 09:59:54 am »
Quote
Sorry to open a parallel to a thread which administrator Thomas already closed, hope you won't throw me out for this.
Wow, people must really fear me like the devil here :( No, really why would you be thrown out.
I gave a short reply to 3Zack in German (that line reads approximately "we currently don't have that, sorry"), as he was apparently unable to communicate in English.
Alas, the forum rules have it that it's an English-only forum (legal reasons), and many enthousiast forum users probably don't feel comfortable if others communicate in a way they can't understand, either.
I've locked that thread because I did not want a conversation in German to continue (which would have been the case, since I replied in German). Had it been Russian or Chinese (which I don't speak), I wouldn't have allowed it. It wouldn't be fair to make an exception just because it's German. No hard feelings, though.

Regarding the launchpad project, Yiannis opened it a year or two ago if I remember correctly. A few people started working on some languages, but what's in there and how current it is... no idea really. Anything you find there is so far unofficial. If there are translations that are 90% complete and up-to-date with the release, that's good news. Still, someone will have to figure out what's usable, organisational work needed here. Adding the data to the release is a few minutes work after that.

Just to be sure we avoid a misunderstanding, I've discouraged translating at some time in the past, because people were working on translations at a time when new strings were added and existing ones changed almost every day. That would mean they were wasting their time and eventually get frustrated over it. Obviously that's no longer true now :)
"We should forget about small efficiencies, say about 97% of the time: Premature quotation is the root of public humiliation."

Offline olipfei

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Re: C::B in deutsch
« Reply #4 on: June 09, 2008, 11:57:48 am »
Quote
Wow, people must really fear me like the devil here :( No, really why would you be thrown out.
I don't fear anyone here, but since I'm fairly new in this forum I didn't want to appear ill-mannered.
Quote
I gave a short reply to 3Zack in German (that line reads approximately "we currently don't have that, sorry"), as he was apparently unable to communicate in English.
Alas, the forum rules have it that it's an English-only forum (legal reasons), and many enthousiast forum users probably don't feel comfortable if others communicate in a way they can't understand, either.
Fully understand and support such self-imposed rules! But could you just explain me shortly what 'legal  reasons' force you to keep the forum English?
Quote
I've locked that thread because I did not want a conversation in German to continue (which would have been the case, since I replied in German). Had it been Russian or Chinese (which I don't speak), I wouldn't have allowed it. It wouldn't be fair to make an exception just because it's German. No hard feelings, though.
Didn't want to allege anyone ressentiments against German language, least of all you  :lol:. Just to continue delivering ideas: How about a subforum exclusively dedicated to support and answer questions of not fluently English speaking fellows? That could be quite feasible, if I remember only the thread of worldwide CB users, and would keep the rest of the forum 'clean'. Or do 'legal reasons' also speak against that?
Quote
Just to be sure we avoid a misunderstanding, I've discouraged translating at some time in the past, because people were working on translations at a time when new strings were added and existing ones changed almost every day. That would mean they were wasting their time and eventually get frustrated over it. Obviously that's no longer true now :)
That are exactly the points I wanted to hear.

Returning to coding: Even if strings keep changing, gettext (and poedit) help you integrate changes to a great extent. And launchpad.net also seems to support translators with this task though I haven't intensively dealt with it yet.

However I just tried to let poedit parse the CB sources for translatable strings, it failed with errors concerning illegal characters. Are patches to correct this welcome?

Regards,
Oliver
« Last Edit: June 09, 2008, 12:02:11 pm by olipfei »

Offline dje

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Re: C::B in deutsch
« Reply #5 on: June 09, 2008, 12:06:10 pm »
Hi !

Didn't want to allege anyone ressentiments against German language, least of all you  :lol:. Just to continue delivering ideas: How about a subforum exclusively dedicated to support and answer questions of not fluently English speaking fellows? That could be quite feasible, if I remember only the thread of worldwide CB users, and would keep the rest of the forum 'clean'. Or do 'legal reasons' also speak against that?

I prefer reading bad english and find what I'm looking for at one place

Dje

Offline thomas

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Re: C::B in deutsch
« Reply #6 on: June 09, 2008, 01:00:39 pm »
But could you just explain me shortly what 'legal  reasons' force you to keep the forum English?
Certainly. The domain owner (Yiannis) and the server are both located in the European Union, the latter in Germany. EU law has it that you are responsible and liable for all content that is on your site. Germany has already made it very explicit and confirmed in several cases that this also applies to content that you did not produce (such as forum posts), and even content that you have no knowledge of. The case against Heise is one example of how perverted the system is.
German government, as you know, is particularly avid at producing the maximum possible bullshit whenever a fart from Brussels or Washington is heard. Especially that psycho in the wheelchair is getting orgasms every time he has the opportunity to criminalize a lot of innocent people and move yet another step towards 1938. However, as long as the majority of our people is happy with being bullied and punished without reason, this is what it's going to be like.

Obviously, Yiannis wouldn't want to deal with that kind of crap, it costs time and money and is good for nothing. So the forum rules disallow everything the moderators cannot understand. As everybody speaks English, this was soon changed to "English only", which is also nicer for most forum users. Posts we can't read are deleted as we find them.

Unluckily, that also answers your question about the "non-english" forum :(
"We should forget about small efficiencies, say about 97% of the time: Premature quotation is the root of public humiliation."

Offline MortenMacFly

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Re: C::B in deutsch
« Reply #7 on: June 09, 2008, 05:26:54 pm »
Especially that psycho in the wheelchair is getting orgasms every time he has the opportunity to criminalize a lot of innocent people and move yet another step towards 1938.
OT, but: Amen.
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Offline raph

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Re: C::B in deutsch
« Reply #8 on: June 09, 2008, 07:23:07 pm »
OT: Amen, Mr. Schäuble. Damn, I should fear a anti-terrorist-unit breaking my house tonight because of saying that name  :shock:
Anyway, I 'm wondering how anybody can develop without at least speaking basic English.

Offline dje

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Re: C::B in deutsch
« Reply #9 on: June 09, 2008, 08:14:07 pm »
at least for and while  :lol:

Offline olipfei

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Re: C::B in deutsch
« Reply #10 on: June 11, 2008, 02:40:26 pm »
Quote
But could you just explain me shortly what 'legal  reasons' force you to keep the forum English?
Feeew, didn't expect that the answer would go into that direction when I posed my question, but thanks, Thomas, now I'm fully instructed.

Final questions that are still unanswered in my opinion:
  • Are patches concerning internationalization encouraged or discouraged right now?
  • Will launchpad.net remain the central platform for coordinating translation efforts, or will this also be moved to new servers?

Regards,
Oliver

Offline thomas

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Re: C::B in deutsch
« Reply #11 on: June 11, 2008, 02:54:37 pm »
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Are patches concerning internationalization encouraged or discouraged right now?
Well, since they greatly improve quality for those who speak little or no English, I'd say they're strongly encouraged. :)
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Will launchpad.net remain the central platform for coordinating translation efforts, or will this also be moved to new servers?
I'm not aware that there is something better we could use instead. Is there?
"We should forget about small efficiencies, say about 97% of the time: Premature quotation is the root of public humiliation."