Author Topic: When is the next version coming out?  (Read 10778 times)

Offline killerbot

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Re: When is the next version coming out?
« Reply #15 on: November 04, 2015, 06:48:52 pm »
we are working on it, normally still this year.

Offline oBFusCATed

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Re: When is the next version coming out?
« Reply #16 on: November 04, 2015, 09:13:45 pm »
Why not? Is the development version so buggy that it can't be released? This is getting on my nerves.
Please try a night build and tell us if there are problems we need to fix.
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Offline Krice

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Re: When is the next version coming out?
« Reply #17 on: November 05, 2015, 10:03:22 am »
Please try a night build and tell us if there are problems we need to fix.

No. I'm going to wait for the release version and then tell if something is wrong. You developers should know the program inside out, not the users. And you really should release more often, it's better that way, because then more users will report bugs etc. You can get sloppy with indefinite development version (night builds), because then bugs and unfinished features are ok and "will be" fixed in distant future.

Offline frithjofh

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Re: When is the next version coming out?
« Reply #18 on: November 05, 2015, 02:10:51 pm »
although I am perfectly fine with nightly builds, I am afraid, he is right...

most users want a version. period.

and then, yes, every time I look into some piece of code of c::b, I get the feeling too, that there are many rather sloppy corners...

the event system, the multithreading, many dialogs, even logical errors...

so, as I said, I am fine with the nightlies, but I understand his point
architect with some spare time  -  c::b compiled from last svn  -   openSuSE leap x86_64  -  AMD FX-4100

Offline oBFusCATed

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Re: When is the next version coming out?
« Reply #19 on: November 05, 2015, 07:32:59 pm »
the event system, the multithreading, many dialogs, even logical errors...
Post patches and bug reports, please.
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Offline thomas

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Re: When is the next version coming out?
« Reply #20 on: November 05, 2015, 08:45:20 pm »
There's a few things that I'd like to comment on here:
Quote
You are doing everything wrong. Code::Blocks sucks. I'm not going to tell you what is wrong, you have to know. I'll tell you after the release. (paraphrased)
Right. That's not going to get you a release any faster, nor a product that's more according to your wishes. If you have something that doesn't work, it's time to tell before a release comes out, not after. Unless of course you only complain because you like complaining.

Quote
SourceForge is modifying offical installers from popular projects. They're adding adware to it against the will of the project owners
That is an outright lie. You should be really careful about what you are saying because it can have much more drastic consequences for your person than you are probably aware of.

Sourceforge did (and does) add adware to installers, but only after the project owners (who get revenue for doing so) have opted in.

Our project has been popular for a long time. It is currently ranked #16 in development and has been in the top 10 for several years (was ranked #2 after last release, it also has been featured as project of the week and whatever it's called, too). At no point in time did Sourceforge secretly or against our will (or at all!) add adware to any of our executables/installers. No adware is currently contained in our installers, and we are not making any money from such a channel (Yiannis does receive one or the other donation on occasions, but on the yearly average, it's less than what renting the server for the website and the forum costs).

Sourceforge indeed does display a considerable amount of ads on their website. Guess what, a lot of websites do that, it's what they live from.

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"Github is so much better than Sourceforge. Git rules and SVN is for losers." (paraphrased)
Yeah, OK. You can choose whichever revision control system and provider you want, the difference is not big. Unlike common folklore, Git has no significant advantages over SVN, unless you work on something the size of the Linux kernel and want a similar workflow like on the Linux kernel (including sending tar files via email, which according to Torvalds is vastly superior to using Subversion). For a project the size of Code::Blocks and a team the size of our team, Subversion works very well.

Please feel free to use what you like, but stop trying to press us into using something different simply because you like it better for some ideologic reason.

In particular, this:
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switching to GitHub reduces the barrier for contributing
is not true. Checking out takes typing 6 characters plus the repository's name, or two clicks with the mouse (depending on what you use). Making a patch, which is factually the equivalent to "committing a branch" takes the same amount of work. Yes, your patch will not be merged to master (or trunk, or whatever you call it). But that won't happen without someone reviewing it anyway, not with Git either.

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However, I'm afraid that I can't commit and merge any modification in local repository when I use subversion as a non-privilige user.
That is true, but it is also something that is explicitly not wanted. It's why there is an authorative server with access control lists in the first place. While having two thousand people clone repositories and commit 25 branches per day as they like sounds like an awesome idea, it is not nearly as awesome unless you have a team of two dozen people dedicated to reviewing these. We don't have that.

The need of producing a clean, working patch which only ever gets committed after applying cleanly without conflicts and being reviewed and tested is something that works well for us (even so, it is often more than what we can cope with time-wise).
"We should forget about small efficiencies, say about 97% of the time: Premature quotation is the root of public humiliation."

Offline raynebc

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Re: When is the next version coming out?
« Reply #21 on: November 05, 2015, 10:45:41 pm »
I'll just come into the discussion to agree that nightly builds are super easy and convenient to use.  For the program I work on, I use a similar/simpler strategy (only the modified executable/resource files) because it allows me to quickly add fixes and new features without the hassle of creating a full package.  My users don't care how often a formal version release is made and it really is not important compared to the stability of the current build.  I ignore users that whine about something and refuse to give any helpful information or valid reasons for complaints, as they are not helpful.  Codeblocks is pretty stable, I rarely see it crash or lock up.

Offline Krice

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Re: When is the next version coming out?
« Reply #22 on: November 05, 2015, 10:50:21 pm »
Right. That's not going to get you a release any faster, nor a product that's more according to your wishes. If you have something that doesn't work, it's time to tell before a release comes out, not after.

Please quote the actual message. But assuming you were talking about my message then this is what I'm going to say: don't try to turn this on me. YOU are the developers, not me. I have no obligation to try out unfinished software, as if it would make any difference on when the next version is released. Usually any normal software has an official release, which (the content and quality of the software) should be known for the developers. I mean what kind of developers are waiting for users to find bugs and even write patches? Why do you even call yourself developers?
« Last Edit: November 05, 2015, 10:52:02 pm by Krice »

Offline jens

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Re: When is the next version coming out?
« Reply #23 on: November 05, 2015, 11:09:51 pm »
Right. That's not going to get you a release any faster, nor a product that's more according to your wishes. If you have something that doesn't work, it's time to tell before a release comes out, not after.

Please quote the actual message. But assuming you were talking about my message then this is what I'm going to say: don't try to turn this on me. YOU are the developers, not me. I have no obligation to try out unfinished software, as if it would make any difference on when the next version is released. Usually any normal software has an official release, which (the content and quality of the software) should be known for the developers. I mean what kind of developers are waiting for users to find bugs and even write patches? Why do you even call yourself developers?
Did you her of free and open source software ?
Do you know what it means to develop software in your spare time, besides your family, your friends, your job etc.

It seems, that you do not know much about software developping at all.

Even if you have a big team, you will never be able to find all bugs, so you need alpha, beta, etc testers or you will never be able to get stable software.
Nightly builds are a real good way to have many testers and to react (as) fast (as possible), if somebody finds a bug.

Offline Krice

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Re: When is the next version coming out?
« Reply #24 on: November 06, 2015, 08:53:08 am »
Do you know what it means to develop software in your spare time, besides your family, your friends, your job etc.

Yes I know. It's lot easier than professional development, because you don't have a deadline or any responsibility to your company or users for success. You can do anything you want and take all the time you need for that, and no one can say anything about it.

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Even if you have a big team, you will never be able to find all bugs, so you need alpha, beta, etc testers

Of course you can find if not all then most bugs. No beta testers needed for that, because obviously you can test everything by yourself and not only that, developers are in better position to do that since they should know how the program works, what features are new etc.

Offline oBFusCATed

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Re: When is the next version coming out?
« Reply #25 on: November 06, 2015, 09:07:37 am »
Krice:
You're missing the point quite badly. No one does C::B as a job, no one is paid for the work he/she is doing.
So most people work on C::B for fun or because they need certain features.
Also most of the developers have some workflow that they are testing everyday and it is known to work.
We're not using all features of C::B everyday. I've even disabled some of the plugins and I've never used them since.

Any feature outside our workflows might be broken beyond repair and we might not know it. We have no QA that clicks on the buttons randomly.
And the reason is simple - no one has stepped up to do the job. We do night builds, to make it possible random people to test newer features and code.
So if you want to help pick a nightly and test if everything you do with C::B works correctly.
If it doesn't report the issues here or on the sf page.
Otherwise just wait and get stuck with what it is released, hopefully soon, but don't expect it to be bug free, nor regression free.

To repeat once more - we're not a formal organisation and people cannot be forced to do things they are not interested doing!
This is how it works and nothing can be done about it.
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Offline Krice

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Re: When is the next version coming out?
« Reply #26 on: November 06, 2015, 12:46:55 pm »
And the reason is simple - no one has stepped up to do the job.

Version 13.12 credits shows you have 13 programmers. I would say it's a big team for open source project. Surely one of them could test the program? You really can't expect users to do that job for you and even worse, put the blame on users for not testing the program and reporting bugs as the reason why the next release version can't be completed.

Offline stahta01

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Re: When is the next version coming out?
« Reply #27 on: November 06, 2015, 03:34:22 pm »
And the reason is simple - no one has stepped up to do the job.

Version 13.12 credits shows you have 13 programmers. I would say it's a big team for open source project. Surely one of them could test the program? You really can't expect users to do that job for you and even worse, put the blame on users for not testing the program and reporting bugs as the reason why the next release version can't be completed.

So, you know very little about program testing; I could spend months testing Code::Blocks and likely would still miss bugs.
Testing is NOT a easy job to do well! You have all the different OSes and Compiler that need tested; then, you have all the CB Plugins that need tested.

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Offline oBFusCATed

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Re: When is the next version coming out?
« Reply #28 on: November 06, 2015, 08:37:55 pm »
Version 13.12 credits shows you have 13 programmers.
Most of them are inactive at this moment.

I would say it's a big team for open source project. Surely one of them could test the program? You really can't expect users to do that job for you and even worse, put the blame on users for not testing the program and reporting bugs as the reason why the next release version can't be completed.
We don't blame users that there is no release. Nor we blame users for anything.
You're the one blaming us that we don't release. If you want to help, grab a night build and report any problems that affect your workflow, otherwise just wait for the next release.

And yes we test the software by using it, but this is something completely different from a QA team testing some piece of functionality and trying to brake every feature advertised by developers. C::B's team has a QA team of zero as are most of the smallish open source projects.

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Offline Krice

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Re: When is the next version coming out?
« Reply #29 on: November 07, 2015, 12:23:21 pm »
If you want to help, grab a night build and report any problems that affect your workflow, otherwise just wait for the next release.

That's directly throwing the responsibility to me (and any users). "If you don't do anything, sorry, we can't finish the next release version." Well you know what, I don't need it. I'm using mainly Visual Studio (free version) and it's no wonder why. Even the ancient 2010 version is better than current Code::Blocks.