Code::Blocks

User forums => General (but related to Code::Blocks) => Topic started by: llandi on September 03, 2008, 09:15:10 am

Title: uiVersal Builder???
Post by: llandi on September 03, 2008, 09:15:10 am
Hi,
this moornig I have found a very strange news on wxwidgets.org: "uiVersal Builder Released!"

You can see some images on http://www.uiversalbuilder.com/.....

But you can notice that the IDE GUI is very very similar to Code::Blocks!!! Why???

Is this a case of forgery (In Italian: Contraffazione)?

Thanks,
Luca
Title: Re: uiVersal Builder???
Post by: dje on September 03, 2008, 09:32:50 am
Well, I think that's OK with wxWidgets licence but I doubt it is compliant with C::B GPL v3 licence (needs a licence expert here).
For sure, "their" tool UI looks like (is?) C::B/wxSmith !

Dje
Title: Re: uiVersal Builder???
Post by: eranif on September 03, 2008, 10:25:38 am
Since I am a true believer in Open source... I just sent an email to their support asking about license issues, and a place where i can download the source files from (AFAIK, their source code should be available for download - when linked against a GPLed product)

In case their product is not linked against GPL code, which I doubt since I think that Code::Blocks SDK is also GPL, they should provide a link to download Code::Blocks source code

We will wait and see
Eran
 

Title: Re: uiVersal Builder???
Post by: llandi on September 03, 2008, 10:43:33 am
Thanks....

Now I will wait for other info/news...

Bye,
Luca
Title: Re: uiVersal Builder???
Post by: thomas on September 03, 2008, 10:46:29 am
That's the most shameless theft I've seen in a while. Actually it's so pathetic that it's almost funny.

Well, I think that's OK with wxWidgets licence but I doubt it is compliant with C::B GPL v3 licence (needs a licence expert here).
For sure, "their" tool UI looks like (is?) C::B/wxSmith !
This guy (talking singular because it's probably a 15 year old lamer who wants to make a few 100s for free off this) has changed the application's name to "universal Builder" and rebuilt the application, as can be seen in the screenshot. This means, he made a modification.
He relicenses the modified application for money under a non-open license and does not publish the modified sources, nor credit the original authors. So, there is little doubt about the legality, really.
Title: Re: uiVersal Builder???
Post by: MortenMacFly on September 03, 2008, 12:01:06 pm
That's the most shameless theft I've seen in a while. Actually it's so pathetic that it's almost funny.
I can't believe this, really! What a big-fat asshole is this? :x
Title: Re: uiVersal Builder???
Post by: MortenMacFly on September 03, 2008, 12:02:09 pm
They have a contact address. Who of us send this asshole an email asking for clarification as a first step? Yiannis?
Title: Re: uiVersal Builder???
Post by: mandrav on September 03, 2008, 12:05:02 pm
Initial counter measures have been taken against them.
Thank you llandi for bringing this up.
Title: Re: uiVersal Builder???
Post by: VZ on September 03, 2008, 02:31:05 pm
Hi,
this moornig I have found a very strange news on wxwidgets.org: "uiVersal Builder Released!"

Hi guys,

I didn't find any way to contact C::B developers directly so let me just say it here: we had no idea that this was a C::B rip off when we added this item to our news page, we'd definitely never have done it otherwise. And we removed this news item now, at least until all questions about the source code of their modifications and licensing (and giving credit to C::B developers if they continue to distribute their version after satisfying the GPL requirements) are resolved.

Sorry for this making it on the front page!

--
Vadim Zeitlin, wxWidgets developer
Title: Re: uiVersal Builder???
Post by: mandrav on September 03, 2008, 09:05:01 pm
Hi guys,

I didn't find any way to contact C::B developers directly so let me just say it here: we had no idea that this was a C::B rip off when we added this item to our news page, we'd definitely never have done it otherwise. And we removed this news item now, at least until all questions about the source code of their modifications and licensing (and giving credit to C::B developers if they continue to distribute their version after satisfying the GPL requirements) are resolved.

Sorry for this making it on the front page!

--
Vadim Zeitlin, wxWidgets developer

Thank you Vadim :).
Title: Re: uiVersal Builder???
Post by: rcoll on September 03, 2008, 09:37:02 pm
Are any of the owner/developers (i.e. Mandrav, MortenMcFly, et al) talking to a lawyer?  It's annoying to be so blatantly ripped-off, but you sure as hell do not want to be held responsible if this universalBuilder thingy actually causes physical or financial damage to one of his paying customers.

Protect yourselves.

Ringo
Title: Re: uiVersal Builder???
Post by: byo on September 03, 2008, 11:02:58 pm
I couldn't believe that. I've already sent an email to the "support" address, huh screenshoots with icons made by me (I'm really not an artist so making them was really a painful task for me ;) ).

Ok, do we make some concrete steps agains this violation? We can contact fsf as listed on this page (http://www.fsf.org/licensing/licenses/gpl-violation.html) and I'm sure that they know how to act in such situations.

Regards
   BYO
Title: Re: uiVersal Builder???
Post by: mandrav on September 03, 2008, 11:28:40 pm
Are any of the owner/developers (i.e. Mandrav, MortenMcFly, et al) talking to a lawyer?  It's annoying to be so blatantly ripped-off, but you sure as hell do not want to be held responsible if this universalBuilder thingy actually causes physical or financial damage to one of his paying customers.

Protect yourselves.

We have already taken action, thanks.
Title: Re: uiVersal Builder???
Post by: rcoll on September 03, 2008, 11:42:08 pm
Ok, do we make some concrete steps agains this violation? We can contact fsf as listed on this page and I'm sure that they know how to act in such situations.

Absolutely.  This guy has his company in Texas, and in Texas you don't screw around with patent violations.  Those lawyers are hungry, mean, and smart.

Let me reiterate, and I will say it 3 times so there is no mistake:

If his "universalBuilder" causes some harm to a paying customer, you (as author) might be held responsible.

If his "universalBuilder" causes some harm to a paying customer, you (as author) might be held responsible.

If his "universalBuilder" causes some harm to a paying customer, you (as author) might be held responsible.

Remember I said those lawyers are hungry, mean, and smart?  They can be just as mean, hungry, and smart for him, as well as for you.

The people listed as "developers" on C::B should put their heads together NOW.  Come up with $500 and retain a lawyer in Ft. Worth, Texas.  Do it BEFORE this bozo does it.  A fight in law is usually the same as a fight in an alley ... the guy to land the first punch has a big advantage.

By the way ... normal lawyers fees in the U.S. vary between $200 to $500 per hour.  A retainer of $500 is average.  Also, by common convention, the initial consultation is free.  Get on the web, find a lawyer in Ft. Worth that looks good to you, and call him on the phone.  Explain the problem (he will want you to e-mail web-page addresses to him), and have him file an injunction in court as fast as possible.

You may have to come up with a few thousand dollars before it is all resolved, but the (same) lawyer will file in court to have that guy pay you back all your legal fees.

Ringo

Title: Re: uiVersal Builder???
Post by: rcoll on September 03, 2008, 11:47:55 pm
Are any of the owner/developers (i.e. Mandrav, MortenMcFly, et al) talking to a lawyer?  It's annoying to be so blatantly ripped-off, but you sure as hell do not want to be held responsible if this universalBuilder thingy actually causes physical or financial damage to one of his paying customers.

Protect yourselves.

We have already taken action, thanks.

I don't mean to sound over-bearing, or alarmist.  But I have seen a similar situation several years ago, and a friend of mine had to eventually file bankruptcy.  (He also gave up software, and became a musician.)

Please, no not depend on FSF or anyone else to protect you; your well-being is not their primary concern.

Ringo
Title: Re: uiVersal Builder???
Post by: JGM on September 04, 2008, 07:35:20 am
Thats why I don't believe in the GPL license as a form of business or protection to the author :( GPL is more an easy business for others than the authors. Many companies start making revenue of GPL software and the real authors behind the software doesn't even earn a penny for the work. Many start selling the gpl software like cedega, the company that ripped off wine project. Start making revenue and the people who worked hard, what they get or what they can do? Nothing!!!!

By the other hand is great to have so many software at our disposal thanks to communities of programmers but it is no way of making business. Mysql is GPL, but in order to make some revenue they needed to create a commercial license for people that doesn't want to distribute the part of their code that is using the mysql api. Also qt does the same thing.

Imagine you working by yourself as a programmer trying to make a living out of it. You make a software for a company that cost about $3000 using gpl. They share the software with other company and give the source also then this company makes the same thing, in no time you are gonna see all the thousands of dollars you could earned from it, but hey we have to respect our client rights and gave them the source, but does they respect our rights, do they have any consideration with the programmer noooo :x. I would think twice before making all my software GPL. Oh lets make money from support, yeah right!! any company can take your software and sell support too is not against the GPL license as also they can sell the binaries while they give the source code.

Some times I think gpl degrades a programmers work to make it look like a cheap task. I think that we programmers are artist, Scientific and Architects that discover and build one of the most important things on live, to make everybody's life much easier, but people don't want to pay for it, contrary to that they want to explode us, we that study so much to be able to do what we do. Is ridiculous that any one can take your software and sell it while they also give the source code. In my opinion GPL has a dark side also.

When the money doesn't exist then anything could be free or interchangeable, but for now not everything could be free since we need those green papers (or whatever color) and coins to survive in this hard world ( we also need to pay our bills  :x ).

Edit
The person seems to know what is doing check this out:
http://www.uiversalbuilder.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=UB10WIN&Show=ExtInfo

The person is selling some custom components under a custom license and the ide kept it as GPL

Quote
universal Builder IDE license agreement
============================

This program is licensed under the terms
of the GNU General Public License version 3

Available online under:
http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-3.0.html
Title: Re: uiVersal Builder???
Post by: thomas on September 04, 2008, 09:51:39 am
If his "universalBuilder" causes some harm to a paying customer, you (as author) might be held responsible.
Not going to happen, no matter how hungry the lawyers are.
The Code::Blocks application is licensed under the GPL, which excludes indemnity among other things. We have not, do not, and will not agree to other license terms. The uiVerval guy and his customers are bound by this license whether they want it or not, regardless of the fact that he is commiting a crime.
The idea of sueing the authors is comparable to the idea of accusing the CEO of General Motors of bank robbery and murder, because some criminals stole a car, robbed a bank, killed someone, and used the vehicle as getaway car - despite the label "do not use for bank robberies" that's clearly visible in the windscreen.


Quote
Edit
The person seems to know what is doing check this out:
http://www.uiversalbuilder.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=UB10WIN&Show=ExtInfo

The person is selling some custom components under a custom license and the ide kept it as GPL
Except the only "extra components" that are visible are the ones made by Byo. And except he claims that "everything" is his copyrighted work at a different location. And except it says you may not use the package (which includes Code::Blocks) on more than 2 PCs.
Title: Re: uiVersal Builder???
Post by: JGM on September 04, 2008, 04:05:36 pm
Except the only "extra components" that are visible are the ones made by Byo. And except he claims that "everything" is his copyrighted work at a different location. And except it says you may not use the package (which includes Code::Blocks) on more than 2 PCs.

I think that this person is going to use the excuse that:

Quote
* uiversal Builder components include the uiversal Builder installer, the uiversal Builder Help program, including any help contents developed by Central Telecommunications, INC. (e.g. uiversal Builder Tutorials, FAQs, Help files, etc.), and the uiversal Builder uninstaller.
* You may use uiversal Bulider components on up to 2 machines.
* You agree not to share the uiversal Builder components or anyone else's uiversal Builder components.

So he is going to say that the only components are the ones made by him and that he is willing to share the IDE and plugins source on demand since he also wrote

Quote
uiversal Builder IDE license agreement
============================

This program is licensed under the terms
of the GNU General Public License version 3

Available online under:
http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-3.0.html

So guys study the case deeply
Title: Re: uiVersal Builder???
Post by: dmoore on September 04, 2008, 07:46:28 pm
Thats why I don't believe in the GPL license as a form of business or protection to the author :( GPL is more an easy business for others than the authors. Many companies start making revenue of GPL software and the real authors behind the software doesn't even earn a penny for the work.

The GPL is as protective as any other license. The only remedy for copyright/licensing violations is the legal system.

Quote
Many start selling the gpl software like cedega, the company that ripped off wine project. Start making revenue and the people who worked hard, what they get or what they can do? Nothing!!!!

actually, cedega took the source of wine before wine was GPLed.

Quote
By the other hand is great to have so many software at our disposal thanks to communities of programmers but it is no way of making business. Mysql is GPL, but in order to make some revenue they needed to create a commercial license for people that doesn't want to distribute the part of their code that is using the mysql api. Also qt does the same thing.

the GPL is very much a part of the success of those products

Quote
Imagine you working by yourself as a programmer trying to make a living out of it.

the GPL is not a cure-all for all businesses. it's best suited to software that's part of a platform or eco-system that can be monetized. the free nature of the software is the hook for users.

Quote
You make a software for a company that cost about $3000 using gpl. They share the software with other company and give the source also then this company makes the same thing, in no time you are gonna see all the thousands of dollars you could earned from it, but hey we have to respect our client rights and gave them the source, but does they respect our rights, do they have any consideration with the programmer noooo :x.

if they aren't copying the source, no license can protect you. only patents can offer protection over concepts.

Quote
Some times I think gpl degrades a programmers work to make it look like a cheap task. I think that we programmers are artist, Scientific and Architects that discover and build one of the most important things on live, to make everybody's life much easier, but people don't want to pay for it, contrary to that they want to explode us, we that study so much to be able to do what we do. Is ridiculous that any one can take your software and sell it while they also give the source code. In my opinion GPL has a dark side also.

it's horses for courses. the point of open source software is to share a tool or a common architecture, which prevent devs getting bogged down in reinventing the wheel over and over.

If his "universalBuilder" causes some harm to a paying customer, you (as author) might be held responsible.
Not going to happen, no matter how hungry the lawyers are.

also helps that the project and its devs are based outside of the US and, hence, out of the jurisdiction of the crazy US legal system.

So he is going to say that the only components are the ones made by him and that he is willing to share the IDE and plugins source on demand since he also wrote

Quote
uiversal Builder IDE license agreement
============================

This program is licensed under the terms
of the GNU General Public License version 3

Available online under:
http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-3.0.html

yes, it isn't at all clear that he's in gross violation of the GPL, although he's a bad sport for not stating the source of the IDE on his web-site and/or submitting any bug fixes/patches upstream. Arguably his installer script could be considered a part of the "corresponding source" as per the gpl and, hence cannot be subject to any nonGPL restrictions. Also noticeably absent from the license list on his product page at http://www.uiversalbuilder.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=UB10WIN&Show=ExtInfo was the code::blocks license (Mandrav, perhaps you should make sure the notice lists all copyright holders if you want that attribution for the team in the future). Other than that and so long as he provides all sources with the binaries to anyone that buys he should be in good shape.
Title: Re: uiVersal Builder???
Post by: rcoll on September 04, 2008, 10:08:36 pm
The idea of sueing the authors is comparable to the idea of accusing the CEO of General Motors of bank robbery and murder, because some criminals stole a car, robbed a bank, killed someone, and used the vehicle as getaway car - despite the label "do not use for bank robberies" that's clearly visible in the windscreen.

Er ... you don't live in the U.S., so perhaps you don't know ... but something very similar to that happened a few years ago.
1) Bartenders are held responsible if one of their customers drinks too much and has a car accident AFTER they have left the bar; and
2) Same thing for car rental companies, if one of their customers commits a crime using a rental car; and
3) Gun manufacturers may be held responsible if someone commits a crime using a gun (this one is still in the courts, I believe).

There are many more examples, but they make my stomach hurt to think about them.

The chances of this "universal" guy getting sued by a customer is pretty slim (he is using C::B, after all), but still, you probably don't want to take any chances.  Don't count on that GPL license meaning much in count.  Not in THIS country.

Ringo
Title: Re: uiVersal Builder???
Post by: JGM on September 05, 2008, 01:13:45 am
it's horses for courses. the point of open source software is to share a tool or a common architecture, which prevent devs getting bogged down in reinventing the wheel over and over.

Sorry dmoore and everyone here, is true what you are saying. Is just that i get mad of people that doesn't give proper credits and try to earn easy money with the work of others, in this case passionate programmers that breath and live for software as help others with no lucrative output.